Trans people: I don’t care which sportball team you play on or what bathroom you use, just wash your hands when you’re done.
Whatever is in your pants is none of my business unless you’re trying to make it my business (in which case, I’m flattered, but in a monogamous relationship, sorry).
I’m with you on this, but I’m also against the opposite: the blind praise and promotion of being trans for some reason. Look, if you have something wired in your brain different that makes you present as another gender, go ahead. Present yourself how you want, I can’t imagine why I’d give much of a shit. It’s a free country. But why do people have to constantly yap and take over every non right wing chud internet space to make it about being trans or related like talking about how hot femboys are. It’s like…I mean honestly? A trend. And something major and life changing like that shouldn’t be a trend. I’m sorry but that is dumb. Have your own spaces where you can talk about your own issues, sure. Don’t be afraid to mention it in other spaces, sure. I’m cool with that. But maybe don’t take over everyone else’s spaces and make everything about you. Being annoying on purpose just doesn’t work in your favor.
Also related, if psychologists and such agree that the best way to treat gender dysphoria is hormones, that’s cool. But like maybe don’t push socialized treatment for that so hard when we have literally nothing else socialized in healthcare. Priorities, you know? People are dying, every day, and cosmetic appearance for something a lot of people find weird and off putting is too easy of a target to keep healthcare terrible. I’m not saying it’s right, but you have to pick your battles sometimes. Just like if you want to make someone not racist towards black people, maybe show them something like jazz or soul first, not hip hop. Is hip hop art? Absolutely, one of my favorite genres. But it’s going to be an immediate turnoff if you jump to bad language and drug dealing and bitches and the other rap tropes. Should you have to cater to someone racist or transphobic? No, but that’s the world we live in. Everyone gets to vote. and everyone starts somewhere with understanding people different than themselves.
Trans rights are human rights in the sense that you should be free to look and present how you want and not be harassed about it. But that doesn’t mean you get to have everything you want, for free, and everyone has to not only treat and react to you exactly how you imagined it in your head, but also praise you for being different. That’s not how the world works, for anything.
Couldn’t agree more.
It’s like…I mean honestly? A trend.
This is the thing that really bothers me. So many kids claiming to be “trans”, when they are very clearly going through common teenage rebellion/finding themselves. It does a disservice to those who really do have gender dysmorphia. The conservative “anti-trans” crowd can point to this and say “see, they’re all just being weird”.
And sure, there are kids who really are that way. My old ass thinks they should wait until they’re actually adults to go messing about with their hormones. That shit is permanent and they’re still developing. They can live as another gender in the meantime, no reason to stop that. But at least make the body modification decision as an adult.
I definitely understand the annoyance, but I let it go because I understand how “Pride” works as a concept.
Bigots and Nazis need to feel “popular”, like they live in a world of their making. One of the biggest weapons against them is showing how unpopular they are. The day that they make an offhand crass comment, and the whole room turns against them.
Pride moments, raising trans positivity unwarranted, are meant to trap and push out those mentalities; keep reminding hateful bigots that “You are not welcome. Cut it out.”
Where it gets tricky is for the many people who are fine with it and don’t care, but just get gradually annoyed. I’m partly there, but I also understand that Trans people have put up with enough of the world’s shit that they’re allowed to vent back for a generation or so at all the baseless hate.
Priority in socialized healthcare is a tricky fight. Everyone wants their cause supported, when really all of them should be. The infighting is based around fear, and not entirely unwarranted, so I don’t have easy answers.
I think this is well said. You should be proud to be who you are, and sometimes bigots need a reality check, but it gets to a point where it is counter productive. I remember a few years ago when people were upset about the Proud Boys militia, and leftists made memes about gay dudes wearing banana hammocks being our “proud boys” because of gay pride. And, uh…no. First, it’s just not funny, so it fails as a meme. Second, being gay does not make you the representative of leftist/progressive ideals, I’m sorry. And third, I don’t particularly want to see a dude’s dick imprint on my home page either, please stop.
Granted, I am in more leftist spaces than most people, but I see the trans flag more than any flag, even the US flag. Even during the world cup where every country was patriotic, I still saw more trans flag spam than anything else. And that is absolutely ridiculous to me, especially for a cause such as being trans, whose identity is generally “I want to be seen as the other gender and I’d prefer people don’t make a big deal about it”, not “my identity is being trans and I will never let you stop thinking about what’s in my pants”.
I hear you with healthcare but in most cases, “my cause or your cause” is the same cause, even if it doesn’t specifically apply to you. If life saving medicine is free, we all win, period. Nobody is like “fuck people with type 1 diabetes, my tax dollars shouldn’t go to them getting insulin which would be negligibly cheap in a socialized system” unless they’re just vehemently anti-socialized medicine in general. Trans “healthcare” is, ultimately, not health related, it is cosmetic surgery or changing your body for cosmetic reasons. Mental health related? Arguable, and I do agree that it is personally. But VERY arguable, and not a lot of people support it. So leading the charge on socialized medicine by making it about trying to psy-op people into thinking “trans rights=human rights, and trans rights=access to expensive treatment paid by tax dollars” only hurts everyone by being an easy scapegoat. Not to mention the whole related psy-op of trying to convince people being trans, particularly “girldick” is hot in porn and whatnot, which is a whole other can of worms. Trying to trick people with thinly veiled propaganda is not the move if you’re trying to start a serious movement. And it makes the trans movement, which is already polarizing and on shaky ground, come off to outsiders like a fetish, ESPECIALLY if you don’t personally know a trans person and only see what’s online. Which is a lot of people, since trans people are like 1% of the population, Trump is president so it is not popular to come out, and many trans people i didn’t know were trans until years of knowing them, because once again, the idea is to be quietly accepted as the other gender. Which makes all the trans spam even more perplexing. Who is actually posting all of this? LARPers? Well meaning supporters? Russian trolls trying to flanderize the movement?
Trans “healthcare” is, ultimately, not health related, it is cosmetic surgery or changing your body for cosmetic reasons.
In the same way someone getting their face reconstructed after a brutal car accident is “cosmetic.” Both are ultimately about making people comfortable in their skin.
Trans care saves lives. It saved mine. I don’t know what kind of monster can look at a 41% suicide attempt rate, look at the only care proven to massively reduce those rates, and then try to trivialize that care. Trans health care is one single most effective classes of medical care in modern medicine. Gender reassignment surgery has far better long term outcomes than knee replacements.
As for why there are so many trans people on Lemmy. Most of us left other spaces, often to get away from enlightened centrists who see our lives, healthcare, and civil rights as privileges to be granted if it’s politically convenient.
It is not about people’s lives being privileges, I resent you saying that. I thought I made it clear that I support trans people and do not tolerate bigotry. Everyone matters. Even if in a theoretical situation “just” 1% of the population is getting genocided, it is still genocide. I don’t value you or anyone else less than anyone else. I simply disagree with your premise, which I believe to be a false dichotomy. The statistics do indeed say there is a higher percentage of suicide rates for trans people. And why is that? In my opinion from looking at the evidence, I do not believe it is primarily or even very much at all related to bottom surgery being expensive. A lot of trans people are not even interested in that at all. It is because trans people are under a spotlight and a microscope, often scapegoated, and it really wears on somebody to be hated all the time and not know where it is safe to be themselves. And why is there such a spotlight? Part of it will always be bigots and right wing politicians deflecting blame. But part of it is self inflicted.
And that’s what I mean by the “taking over spaces” part of my comment. You are perfectly welcome in Lemmy as far as I concerned. You shouldn’t have to “hide” that you’re trans or avoid talking about issues that concern you. That’s not what I’m trying to say.
Think about it like this: imagine the trans spam was literally anything else. Say like…it was about India. I have Indian friends and coworkers, Indian food is great, Hinduism is kinda foreign to me but I find the concept and ethos very interesting, traditional Indian clothing is pretty and cool. Positive opinions, neutral at worst. Now imagine if Indian people refused to shut up about India. Screenshot of a movie with a character wearing a white shirt, orange light from a sunset and green grass “OMG GUYS THE COLORS OF THE INDIAN FLAG, ARE THEY IMPLYING THAT THIS RANDOM CHARACTER IS ACTUALLY INDIAN?!” Every food or cooking sub is taken over by Indian food, people comment on non Indian food “why not just make Indian dish?” Any random brown person “yeah it’s giving Indian vibes” Comment on a pretty girl’s Instagram : “So cute! Glad to see a fellow Indian be loud and proud” “Actually I’m not Indian” “Not yet ;)”
I think you can imagine people would start to have more negative opinions on Indian people if this were the case, or at the very least find them immature. Except this actually makes a lot more sense because there are literally a billion of them, and there are nowhere near that amount of trans people.
This, combined with the false dichotomy makes the movement come off as immature teenagers to a lot of people. I have not found that to be the case from trans people i know in real life, but that is the perception.
Even if I were to believe the false dichotomy of “pay for trans surgeries with taxpayer money or trans people will die”, that’s not any more convincing than it was when my ex girlfriend threatened to kill herself if we broke up. Me having sex with her is not healthcare because of her potential actions. I think it is important to be precise with language. And to be clear, I would vote for covering trans stuff with universal healthcare if it got on the ballot, as long as there were legal protections from something like a mentally ill parent forcing transitioning on their child.
Lastly, you say “politically convenient” as if I’m running for office. As previously mentioned, people die every day because they can’t afford healthcare, and it’s only getting worse. I know someone who divorced his wife so she won’t have to pay his medical bills after he got cancer. After burning through his life savings that he worked hard on and made sacrifices for, for THIRTY YEARS. Not only does he not get to enjoy any of the money he saved by working overtime, but he can’t even die young in peace knowing that his wife will be supported. He now has to worry that debt collectors will sue her after his death if they suss out that their divorce was due to debt. That is dystopian, a nightmare. And that is not “my problem vs your problem”. It can happen to you. And it is probably more likely to happen to you, as transitioning can be hard on your body. I’m not a fan of politics, I just recognize the reality. To some, people, being trans is an affront on god himself. It sure is stupid, but they will vote against their own self interest just to spite you. There is no universe where we will be able to jump to “trans people should get whatever they define as healthcare paid for by someone else.” from absolutely nothing being covered. Not anymore than we should have campaigned Frederick Douglas for president of the United States before we, you know, got rid of slavery. Could he have been a good president in a vacuum? Yes, he was an intelligent and wise person. But you knowing that, and me knowing that doesn’t mean it would have been a good idea. And NOTHING exists in a vacuum. Ever.
You fundamentally do not see trans people’s healthcare as legitimate. You are not welcome here.
People come to Lemmy precisely to escape enlightened centrists like yourself. Stay on the mainstream sites where you won’t have to see the icky trans people talking about their issues.
Cultural appropriation.
So… You’re offended. People are living out of their cars now. I’m more worried about that.
Also, the person being offended usually isn’t even from the target culture. They’re being vicariously offended on behalf of somebody else, when the actual members of that culture usually dgaf or like it.
Don’t get me started on “Latinx.”
Oh I’ll happily get started on that one. I’m latina. Latinos very rarely use latinx because it can’t be fucking pronounced in Spanish. If you must use a neutral version, latine is more common.
My understanding is that it was originally created in I think Puerto Rico?, but quickly got picked up and pushed by non-Hispanic (mainly white) people. To put it in perspective, 4% of the US Hispanic population uses it (2024)
Don’t use latinx
Steam. Apparently I’m supposed to be angry they are a locked down monopoly but compared to practically EVERY OTHER GAMING COMPANY IN THE WORLD they are frickin’ saints.
Yeah, it’s one of those things where one could argue that steam is successful in part to being entrenched (all of your friends are on steam and all of your games are on steam, so might as well continue using steam), but also… other game launchers are just worse? The fact steam has a lot of useful features, as well as surprisingly few scummy incidents in its history just makes it not worth switching off for me :p
Taylor Swift. Like, I get that billionaires are a problem, and her carbon footprint is huge. On the list of problematic billionaires, I feel like she really doesn’t do that much problematic shit compared to the others.
Musk is a Nazi that gutted the US govt, Ellison has a laundry list of major issues, bezos is killing small businesses and bought a news company to whitewash himself, gates was involved with Epstein and did some shady shit to grow Microsoft, the waltons single handedly massacred thousands (millions?) of small businesses with anticompetitive practices.
I really don’t think that Swift rises remotely close to the same level of degeneracy and existential threat that these guys do, yet the only other billionaire I see getting criticised as much as her is Musk.
Star Trek vs Star Wars. I like both.
Reddit. They were irritating, so I left, but I couldn’t care less if someone posts content here from teddit or(apparently gods forbid) mentions reddit.
I do not care about whatever happens with that company any more than I care about Apple or McDonald’s or any other company with shitty products I don’t engage with.
Dude, Lemmy is literally Reddit Junior nobody using this website has a leg to stand on complaining about stuff from Reddit making its way here LOL.
Doesn’t seem like it, Between the slower growth rate, lack of profit motive, decentralization and community funded instances, people act much more decently here. Reddit was pretty impotent-ragey from the get-go without a way to tune out the bigots. On lemmy, places like hexbear are easily exiled. Womensstuff has bigots, i blocked them, done.
My only issue is the bots that mirror reddit content over.
And it’s not that it’s from reddit that bothers me, none of the posts I’ve seen ever have any engagement. So it feels like spam.
Usually anything to do with celebrity drama. While it’s not that common on Lemmy, the rest of the pop internet seems infatuated with what actor/musician threw shade or dissed some other, or which diva is being treated SO unfairly…
Firefox purity testing. Oh no they ran an ad or made a post on a mainstream platform or developed a widget. Look at the state of the world this is such a non issue and compared to the other browsers out there they are fighting the good fight unequivocally.
What a CEO or founder of a company does off the clock. Brave, Mozilla, Mullvad, Proton, GrapheneOS - I just don’t care. If I picked a product off of the CEO not being a dick, I wouldnt have any products or services to use.
It’s more that the internet demands that I’m constantly outraged, but I want to spend the majority of my time being chill and happy. I can get my dander up for most things the internet wants me to be mad about, I just… don’t.
“Problematic media.” People who whinge over this are oversensitive children that treat fictional characters better than real people, think people can’t separate fiction from reality, and actively enable censorship states like the UK.
“Gooner,” “porn addiction,” and adjacent complaints. “Gooners” seem much more well put together to me than the people who hate on them. I swear this is another effort from the global Conservative apparatus to increase repression as a bid to increase the popularity of their social policies. Also I swear some of you just see a woman who looks under 40 in media and call it gooner.
“Cultural appropriation.” Not to say it doesn’t exist, but it’s been completely blown out of proportion, and probably does more to divide us than it does to protect anything. The modern discussion around it assumes everyone is an influencer doing things for money or power.
Almost any single thing about movies or shows. I don’t consume either and literally could not care less about any of it. Double whammy with superhero stuff.
What entertainment do you consume if you avoid all movies and shows? I don’t watch much myself either, but I still do on occasion
Maybe they just watch shows passively, like my grandmother does. She watches Murder She Wrote, Judge Judy, Jeopardy, but she doesn’t really care about any of those shows and doesn’t really absorb what she watches.
Or maybe they mainly read books or play video games or just don’t consume entertainment at all
Chat Control. It’s not evil EU trying to read everyone’s messages. It’s EU working with various groups to solve an issue, like they do all the time.
Yes, various groups trying to solve a problem that barely exists by creating problems orders of magnitude worse but gives them more power. But surely there are no nefarious motivations there.
Online grooming barely exists? I’ve seen reports that it’s quite common in Roblox for example but I don’t have kids so I don’t know.
I am not saying online grooming is not a problem, but as you said, it happens on public spaces like Roblox, where predators can find children. Chat Control is unnecessary to monitor those. Random youtubers have been able to do that. No need to build a massive spy apparatus. Instead, of adressing this, Chat Control tries to pry open secure communications like Signal used by journalists, protesters, etc. Applications where grooming is not much of an issue as you only communicate with your existing contacts.
Chat Control ignores the rampant grooming in plain sight while trying to spy on communications where it is rare. So tell me, am I paranoid to think they have different motivation to breach those and are only using “protecting kids” as an excuse?
So tell me, am I paranoid to think they have different motivation to breach those and are only using “protecting kids” as an excuse?
I don’t think you’re paranoid, more uninformed.
Chat Control proposed two things:
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Some, let’s call them, ‘anti-grooming’, common sense rules by default. They propose identifying high risk services in which you can for example search users by age and send them private messages. Those services would be required to do things like age verification to separate children from adults. If services don’t want to do age verification they have to implement measures like not letting users send private messages to everyone, not being able to search by age, limiting what info is visible to other users (pictures? names? locations? interests?), limiting public spaces (do you need common, public chats in Roblox or can it be limited to chats with friends only?) and so on. I think this is way better than hoping youtube vigilantes will look for pedos for views.
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The other thing they are trying to solve is using e2ee messaging apps to distribute CSAM. Here they don’t want to touch encryption in any way and the proposal is to let providers voluntarily scan media client side. This was proposed as mandatory at first but was changed later. This is the part people don’t like as it indirectly forces providers to scan media client side. Nobody likes it but no one proposed any other solution to limit distribution of CSAM.
So what you’re describing is not very accurate. No one is proposing large scale monitoring using some massive spy apparatus. They do actually propose common sense solutions implemented by individual services (how you search users, who can you contact, etc). No one is also proposing breaking e2ee and monitoring messages, the most controversial part is about client side scanning of media. And the original proposal was different but after talking with many privacy groups it was changed. Now it’s very close to what privacy advocates are proposing with the only problematic part being the client side scanning. Privacy advocates simply propose to ignore the issue of distributing CSAM and EU still wants to address it.
If you think client side scanning is not a massive spy apparatus, you don’t understand the technology. There is no such thing as purely on device CSAM detection. See Discord banning people for minecraft inventory pictures if you need an example how broken the automated part of the technology is. It’s just sending messagis to law enforcement to read with extra steps.
As for the first part, Chat Control is not mandating age verification. It’s identity verification. If a beraucrat decides lemmy.world is a risk, you will have to provide an ID to post here regardless of your age and the instance admin will have to use their limited abilities to store and protect them. Good luck with that shit. That is a spy apparatus. And it is unnecessary. The conversations are public. Instead of just letting the predators find a different place, create a better reporting system. Or hell, at least make it an actual age verification using Zero Knowledge proofs. But they don’t want to do that, they want our identities.
Same thing with CSAM, you don’t get born knowing the phone number of your local CSAM distributor. Law enforcement can monitor for people advertising. They can pose as interested people or distributors. There is no reason to break encryption over this. Nor is it even possible while open source exists.
If you think client side scanning is not a massive spy apparatus, you don’t understand the technology.
I think scanning of media is not a massive spy apparatus. Breaking e2ee and scanning of all communications would be. If they want to monitor journalists and protesters by only scanning media they are doing shit job at building their spy apparatus.
The conversations are public.
No they are not, most of social media (if not all) has some direct message mechanism.
Instead of just letting the predators find a different place, create a better reporting system.
Most kids don’t report those things. This is part of the problem and Chat Control does address that by mandating better reporting systems.
As for the first part, Chat Control is not mandating age verification.
It does:
“”" 3.Providers of interpersonal communications services that have identified, pursuant to the risk assessment conducted or updated in accordance with Article 3, a risk of use of their services for the purpose of the solicitation of children, shall take the necessary age verification and age assessment measures to reliably identify child users on their services, enabling them to take the mitigation measures. “”"
Chat Control only talks about identifying child users. I don’t see anything there that mandates storing of IDs. Can you point me to the relevant part of the legislation?
Same thing with CSAM, you don’t get born knowing the phone number of your local CSAM distributor. Law enforcement can monitor for people advertising. They can pose as interested people or distributors.
And I’m sure law enforcement already does that. As I said, privacy advocates think that’s enough and this problem should not be addressed by EU. EU think it should. Chat Control was not approved yet, there are discussions to find the right solution.
You are reading the text and not thinking what it looks like in reality.
I think scanning of media is not a massive spy apparatus. Breaking e2ee and scanning of all communications would be. If they want to monitor journalists and protesters by only scanning media they are doing shit job at building their spy apparatus.
What happens when the scan identifies an image as CSAM? If the answer is notify authorities with unencrypted chat, then it is a spy apparatus. The false positives are high enough that they will get to read countless innocent conversations and there are ways to intentionally induce false positives if you want specific conversations. And if it does not report, then what does it do?
No they are not, most of social media (if not all) has some direct message mechanism.
Those are rarely available to strangers by default and I have no issue in banning direct DMs to strangers.
Most kids don’t report those things. This is part of the problem and Chat Control does address that by mandating better reporting systems.
So there is one decent thing in this law, let’s pass all the privacy invasive stuff as well. /s I have no issue with better reporting, but the chat monitoring needs to go.
Chat Control only talks about identifying child users. I don’t see anything there that mandates storing of IDs. Can you point me to the relevant part of the legislation?
Sure, so how is a company supposed to implement it? Only to government issuing IDs can realistically provide Zero Knowledge proofs. If they don’t support this option, companies can’t really use it. And companies generally need to keep records that prove they are complying with the law, which is again impossible while preserving privacy unless the government helps.
And I’m sure law enforcement already does that.
Just google how underfunded to agencies responding to existing reports are. They are not doing anywhere near what they could.
Chat Control was not approved yet, there are discussions to find the right solution.
The reason it did not pass so far is because of privacy advocates spreading awareness of how fucking broken the law is and creating push back. The time to consult experts and improve the law was in the EU commission, before putting it to vote in the Parliament. Clearly they did not care to protect privacy until people pushed back. The commission and other supporters are still looking for ways to pass it without addressing the privacy issue. See recent emergency measure passed using vacations to bypass a proper vote.
I am sure there are people that support the bill with good intentions but I have lost any fate in the EU to care for the privacy of its citizens.
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Israel-Palestine war.
So many wars and other genocides going on in the world yet the internet decides this is the one I should be mad about. Hypocrisy.
i/p is not a psyop but the whirlwind that whipped it into international politics most certainly is as well as the barely masked anti-jew subliminal messaging
and look at your downvotes; it worked
it will fade and disappear at some point at least until the next mass casualty terrorist attack
the people who the most angry about this are the ones who are the most ignorant about it.
but those are the same people who think every American is a Trump supporter stereotype.
true, i’ve tried to talk through the history of i/p many times here. they refuse or resort to the approved arab version that starts at naqba
