States have no rights. People have rights.

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Russia’s favorite propaganda is to claim that democracy is impossible because state violence is universal. They don’t deny their own wrongdoing (the way China does): they embrace it with whataboutism.

Saying “all states are authoritarian” is meaningless. Of course all statehood is based in violence. Yet clearly citizens of Taiwan and China have different relationships with their governments.

To whit, I have no rights in China. They could disappear me for this one comment.

No. I don’t care about any nation state, only about the badness of dictatorships. Tankies defend Russian and Chinese dictatorships in particular.

Interestingly, they don’t defend (and often even condemn) other dictatorships. This is a feature of their tribalistic ideology and a product of propaganda. Concepts like “state enemies” are meaningless to me. I apply moral rules universally to all people and hold their behaviors to the same standard, regardless of their imaginary nation.

One last thing. Russia’s favorite propaganda is that everyone lies and democracy is impossible because state violence is universal. They don’t deny their wrongdoing (the way China does), they embrace it with whataboutism. Saying “all states have violence” is meaningless. Of course all statehood is based in violence. Yet clearly Taiwan and China have very different approaches.

To whit, I have no rights in China. They could literally disappear me for this comment.

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Having strong opinions about reforming vs overthrowing capitalism doesn’t make you a tankie. Apologetics for state violence and Russian and Chinese totalitarianism certainly does; just as defending Israeli wrongdoing makes you a Zionist; and defending Trump makes you a fascist, etc.

it’s not “loyalties” but … the particular brand of propaganda people are getting.

State propaganda exists to engender loyalty to the regime. That’s the whole point.

They are quick to jump on any “western” wrongdoing, but equally quick to dismiss much worse from their own tribe. Because they are tribalists and nationalists who favor some nations over others — because they’re brainfucked by propaganda, as you said.

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This obsession with east vs west is paradigmatic of tankie tribalist ideology. They can’t conceive of someone who doesn’t obsess over nationality or ethnic and cultural loyalties. Humans are humans. We should fight to be free from state oppression. Not complicated.

They’re not communists. They’re tankies: nationalistic authoritarians who defend police state brutality and “alternative facts” to spread disinformation courtesy of Russia and China. They’re obsessed with a west vs east tribalism and nationalism.

Also, I don’t think you mean liberals strictly, but socialists — demsoc, socdem, anarchists, whatever.

Anarchists don’t respect nation states or arbitrary class divisions, which clashes hard with tankies’ rabid nationalism.

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