Would have saved us a lot of trouble if it had been this whole damn while.
It’s not even that “hardcore” of ideology honestly. It depends a lot on the lens you view it through your society. If it’s far right, then saying “water is a human right!” is going to seem extreme leftism.
Wasn’t even the wildest. Before compsci I was doing mechanical engineering.
We had an assignment to design a railcar layout for transporting livestock. It gave the minimal parameters for the animals, established client driven acceptable losses for the livestock, etc…
We all cracked away at it. After we handed them all in, the profs were like “nowhere in the spec was the actual animals named, was no one curious?”
Silence.
They had given us a literal Nazi RFP discovered post WWII. It was for moving people to fucking concentration camps.
“You’re smart people. People are going to ask you to do bad things. They’re going to try and hide thier intentions. Don’t collaborate with Nazis. Don’t ever use what I teach you to hurt people.”
Strange how I’m the polar opposite of a leftist and seem to excel at my programming job of 7 years when I was all entirely self-taught in the years leading up to it
It’s almost like programming syntax and structure for every popular language in the world has absolutely nothing to do with politics but you all want to pretend otherwise, how interesting!
I guess we simply can’t teach the basics of array indexing within a for loop without mentioning how evil it is to vote for Donald Trump midway through… oh wait yea we can we just choose not to and pretend it’s not possible XD
Be sure to read through an entire novel on x86 intel assembly and let me know what political stance the language has, the countless MOV inputs within the source code for all NES games is rooted in leftist ideology surely
Clown world to the extreme, I cannot comprehend programming being remotely linked to politics outside of purposely naming your variables certain ways intentionally, what’s next will walking a dog be political in 2030? Better not own a white fur dog guys
I’m the polar opposite of a leftist
A nazi?
You don’t need to go all the way to poles to find Nazis on the right in {current year}
Yeah everyone who disagrees with you extremists and forms their own unique personal opinions based on the facts of reality is a nazi ofc
Then you all sit around confused wondering why this platform isn’t taken serious by literally anyone outside of it
“Hrmmm well 99% of people on the planet must simply be evil nazis unlike us!” Yeah surely bro surely, it’s those who are the crazy ones for sure!
Legit this behaviour right here is why everyone normal and sane within our entire world on every other mainstream platform full of average people with normal morals and values views you extremists as clowns by default fyi
You’ve swung that label around to the point where it means nothing at all, no actual points no nothing just ‘oh you disagree so you’re a nazi lawlz!’ and this community is so deep within this fantasy that you all hold hands, agree and upvote each other by default no matter how utterly ridiculous you look
Now feel free to downvote me to -50 now as an emotional response as if it’ll change this truth of this
“AGREE WITH ME OR YOU’RE EVIL BECAUSE… BECAUSE… BECAUSE YOU JUST ARE, OKAY??!?” - You
Legit this behaviour right here is why everyone normal and sane within our entire world on every other mainstream platform full of average people with normal morals and values views you extremists as clowns by default fyi
See and I thought Lemmy was too obscure for the average person. We’re growing
Can’t imagine why
“What a jester this comrade is. Computers don’t know politics, stupid. How could they think that there’s any ‘leftism’ [🤮] when I, a proud and open chud, am paid money by some rich guy to make computers at the computer store (that I franchise from him as his self-taught business apparentice 😎).”
Y’know I remember ten years ago we had guys like you who thought it was stupid to unionize compsci work or form some guild that could enforce minimum protections. Wonder how they’re doing these days.
Couldn’t have been an easier thing to refute and yet you still fumbled it with the whiney victim card.
Couldn’t have been an easier thing to refute and yet you still fumbled it with the whiney victim card.
You say, as you yourself appear incapable of refuting anything I’ve said - curious!
Love getting endless responses by emotional people upset enough to reply yet not one of them makes any point against anything I’ve actually said, very intelligent people on here
Click the down arrow quick just click it and run without any proper response (since you all can’t give one ofc), emotional lemmingz malding at the truth, what else is new hold hands and pretend fantasy is reality together quick!!!
NES x86
Be quiet dumb nazi.
HURR NAZI HURR DURR EVERYONE NOT AN EXTREME LEFTIST IS A NAZI HURR DURR I HAVE NO POINTS BUT UR NAZI CUZ U JUST ARE HURRRR UPVOTE ME FRIENDS FOR CALLING EVIL NON-LEFTIST OUR FAVOURITE HOT NAZI WORD MY EXTREMIST LEMMY BRETHREN HURRRRRRR -You
It’s fine, you are the normal ones for thinking like this ofc ;) my "if Highly_emotional_monkey_brain_response == high_IQ, print(“he’s so smart”); resulted in FALSE I’m afraid
No points you can actually give ofc, “ur evil nazi man cuz u just are”, nice brain
I wouldn’t want to be a CS teacher at this decade, more than half the code will be AI generated. Would just suck the life force out of you seeing how little students care about actually learning the stuff.
What is the saying? Something about people who learn about how technology works begin to shun technology?
This may shock you, but if you think like this, you might be a hardcore leftist.
Also, I’m reminded of the Ghostbusters (1984) quote:
Dr. Raymond Stantz: Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn’t have to produce anything! You’ve never been out of college! You don’t know what it’s like out there! I’ve WORKED in the private sector. They expect results.
The quote is the least believable thing in this move about ghost blowjobs
The absolute worst thing about how STEM is taught in my country is how entirely devoid curriculums are from critical theory. You take inputs, outputs, energies and production as-is, and you get a crop of drones who think such discussions are irrelevant. Then they graduate, start working and earning good money – and suddenly they support capitalist production structures because they’re “rational” and “objective”. Some then become the biggest chuds ever known to man.
I remember that I discussed gentrification with a civil engineer who happened to be my boss, a very renowned and talented person in our branch. He didn’t know what gentrification was…
civil engineer […] didn’t know what gentrification was…
Sweet jebus on ice-skates. The guy was potentially a literal if not figurative architect in service of one of the most profound mechanisms of gentrification and hadn’t heard of it?! That’s like designing cars and being unaware of traffic jams and induced demand.
What do you mean with critical theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory
There are different forms but it’s basically getting woke to class struggle between people who own shit and rent it out and people who get paid a bit to use the shit, but never actually get to own real shit or control what shit they decide to do.
I’m putting it pretty bluntly and pretty woke…ly, and a lil but Marxly. It’s also about analyzing systems we use to organise ourselves and what they do to us. Basically how to get people to actually wake up to how and why things are how they are and maybe how they could be different / better.
In the context of STEM students who focus on inputs, outputs, and engines at the expense of considering societal impacts (or simply telling themselves it’s the job of poor humanities students to get elected and pass laws to constrain the most egregious negative externalities of technology) it’s asking who an efficiency is for. Efficiency cannot exist in a moral vacuum. As Kim Stanley Robinson summarized in The Ministry for the Future (2020):
… there is good efficiency and bad efficiency, good inefficiency and bad inefficiency. … preventative health care saves enormous amounts in medical costs later, and is a good efficiency. Eating your extra children (this is Swift’s character’s “modest proposal”) would be a bad efficiency. Any harm to people for profit is likewise bad, no matter how efficient. Using an over-sized vehicle to get from point A to point B is a bad inefficiency, and there are many more like it; but oxbows in a river, defining a large flood plain, is a good inefficiency
Isn’t it funny how people who “have things” are less likely to be all that interested in leftism. And those who don’t have “things” look at them, want more leftism because they want want the “things” the people who have “things” and they don’t have.
And neither side understands the other.
Leftists aren’t jealous of rich people. Slanderous and incorrect
I just want to be able to live life as carefree as they can without regards to money. It’s a bit of jealousy but it’s not the overriding reason for it.
I have plenty of things, and still support pretty left wing ideas (except for the violence that some people here seem think is required to be considered left).
Ayn Rand has entered the chat.
What do you mean?
I have more things than I could ever want.
I want more agency.
What do you want to say, exactly?
That leftism is a product of ressentiment from people who don’t have “things” against people who have “things”, I guess. ContraPoints-level take tbh.
I hate billionaires, not because I want to be a miserable sociopath with too much money, but because they are largely the reason that any kind of improvement to our planet and species is being blocked. I support socialized healthcare, not because I envy those who have the money to pay for life-saving healthcare, but because I don’t want to fucking die, etc. etc.
There certainly are people like BadEmpanada, who oppose unions and welfare so that “first-worlders can suffer”, but they definitely don’t reflect what leftism is in general.
BE
I agree, and I’d add it’s not even a specifically left wing impulse either. The Roman Republic of all institutions was deeply concerned with the idea that republics shouldn’t have private princes as well as kings. The fact the Roman Republic failed to contain its oligarchy to the point of fundamental destabilisation into arbitrary power is evidence people ought to pay attention to left wingers when they say the same thing about billionaires and the concentration of wealth.
I understood that tbh. I just wanted the person to say it in their own words…
They don’t understand either side.
deleted by creator
That’s a different person you’re replying to
That’s embarrassing … 🤓
I missed it
Isn’t it funny how people who “have food” are less likely to be all that interested in leftism. And those who don’t have “food” look at them, want more leftism because they want want the “food” the people who have “food” and they don’t have.
It’s still garbled, but makes a better point.
Your edit makes a good insinuation “they’re just things” people think objects are frivolous things that tie you down because they’ve never experienced genuine lack.
Not like lack of toys, but the bear necessities of survival.
The basic necessities should just be provided, by that I mean food and shelter and basic medical care. If people want to live luxuriously that’s fantatic, going and toiling, innovating or improving their situation in someway should be encouraged; but no one should ever be shelterless and hungry.
Republicans have never forgiven Alan Turing, and much prefer the contributions of IBM during the same period.
I feel like this isn’t super new. You haven’t been able to do things like talk academically about network security or cryptography without being incredibly critical of government for decades.
My professors sure were. I felt really bad for them, honestly. They were the driving force to make philosophy and ethics courses mandatory at my university in order to recieve a comp sci degree.
“If you work in these areas long enough, at a high enough level, you WILL be asked to compromise something for the benefit of a state actor, and you might not even realize it’s happening. The person asking you to do it might not even realize what is really happening.” Was what our prof told a packed lecture hall.
This is pretty much my inspiration for self hosting. A three letter agency needs to infiltrate my network or show up to my house with a warrant. I’m not going to be able to stop them, but at least they’ll have to work for it. I’d love a CSI Miami’s episode level of effort for them to discover that I’m just a fucking nerd sharing Linux ISOs.
I want to hear that lecture!
When I was at Uni, we had a mandatory Ethics class for Comp Sci/Comp Eng. I think it was for all majors under the Sciences banner.
It’s an introduction class, just start with history of computers and shift to programming from there.
You know, the history of computers, the Alan Turing, and the first assembly language, and the first software engineer, and “the entire pre-1992 internet.”
Even just the facts are incredibly “woke” leaning unless you just boil everything down to a single sentence factoid and dont go into much detail
That’s basically everything, though.
Reminds me of creationist textbooks trying to teach about electricity.
Pretty sure anyone who’s ever grabbed a live wire has felt electricity. I guess you could argue you’re still only feeling what it does, but that’s like arguing you only feel what a punch in the face does…
What kind of an ego do you have to have to think you know everything about science, so you write a textbook, and when you get to electricity, you don’t know anything about it, but since you know everything about everything, if you don’t know anything about electricity, that means nobody else does, either?
I dunno, but that was my textbook growing up. College was fun.
Home schooling for the lose.
Sweet baby Jesus
That’s the problem, they can believe in Jesus, but not electricity.
If that’s real I assume it’s less that they don’t believe in electricity or even that they don’t understand it. Probably more “portray difficult concepts as magical so that the idea of blind faith isn’t so difficult to digest” kind of intellectual dishonesty
That’s if it’s real though and not a nonsense meme to generate outrage. Highly sus that a book title isn’t mentioned
If it’s science, it’s woke!
Real patriots use the abacus.The abacus is also woke unfortunately
Look at the fancy pants here that uses advanced technology like the abacus instead of counting on their nine fingers like the rest of us!
I’m sure these topics become relevant at some point, but I’m doubtful that it’s absolutely necessary to address them in an intro course. how does leftist ideology help kids understand what a while loop does
like, literacy can do all of these things too, that doesn’t mean you have to introduce those concepts at the same time as the abc’s
The distinction here is programming vs computer science. You’re correct that it’s not strictly necessary, but it really depends on the area of study. Please allow me a small rant about the distinction - this isn’t directed at you.
Programming, honestly, could be taught like a trade. It’s a skillset and a craft, with best practices and even regulations in some industries. But one doesn’t need to know anything about how we got here or the fundamentals that make a computer work electronically, in order to write code.
Computer Science necessarily tracks back through the history of computing, in order to provide a grounding in how all this stuff ticks. You can’t talk about Babbage without Ada Lovelace, you can’t talk about Alan Turing without what the government did to him, and you can’t bring up ARPANET or the internet without talking about Berkley techno-hippies. Every step of the way are people taking capitalist and government interest and subverting it to meet more worldly and socialized goals. Everyone in this story has an agenda and, shocker, the smartest people tend to dominate in this field and reliably don’t fuck with conservative nonsense.
basket = [] for pos in billionaires: if pos not in basket: - basket += guillotine(b) + basket += guillotine(pos) # Corrected iterable namingbasket = [ guillotine(billionaire) for billionaire in population ]Haha, that’s either horrible if you don’t know what you just did there or brilliant parody if you did.
Almost. You just committed genocide.
Nah he’ll get a TypeError.Not seeing why, honestly…Unless you consider the merciless and systematic execution of all billionaires to be genocide…which I guess is technically fair…but it’s for a good cause! (…said every genocidist ever…)
Of course, I changed the name of the iterable…
And we’re talking about intro to compsci…getting a bit ahead of ourselves going right from loops to comprehension.
He just called everyone in the population a billionaire and executed them without actually checking if they are in fact billionaires. Somewhat too close to reality in some scenarios for my taste…
basket = [ guillotine(human) for human in population if is_billionaire(human) ]There, now you’re not killing everyone on Earth
This is why we don’t test in prod.
Nope, billionaire is a designator, not a discriminator. They’re iterating over population and decapitating everyone regardless of wealth. ;)
It’s missing an
if <someOtherDesignatorForPopulatioMember> in billionairesin the comprehension.
Hooooo boy, this person is going to make a terrible and incomprehensible intro class full of irrelevant infodumping lol.
I’ve had the same approach from the other side of the aisle and let me tell you, talking about open source and liberal ideals in programming would be a lot less hostile than some fundie rant.
Chapter 41: how to open your IDE
Chapter 42: why VIM is the best IDE
Chapter 43: So you’re trapped in your IDE
Yeah, that comment is just way over the top
I don’t think OP is implying while loops require ideological understandings, but rather more foundationally as to understand how computer commodities are made and traded, the concept of centralization simply arises. Thus, the discussion of control, IP, etc, and now AI and labor.
But why would that be discussed in an intro to programming class?
Typically, historically, it didn’t matter really. Moore’s Law, general positive vibes from the prospect of computer tech in the future of the industry, and why scare undergrads seeking good salaries away from institutions taking donations from said corps? But things are pretty different now. AI is less of a thought experiment than before. What better lens to analyze AI than from labor in economics, i.e., Marxism?
The students joined the class to learn programming, and not to analyze AI? It’s like if I joined a pottery class and the teacher spent an hour talking about how pottery isn’t a high paying profession. I didn’t come for life advice or economic rambling, I came to learn pottery.
My bad for looking for nuance in a microblog meme, jesus. Education ain’t just the literal skills and nothing else, y’know. Teachers and classes are more than just human textbooks and tutorials.
And yet, the intro programming class I took just focused on the skills and I thought it was great. I’m mainly refuting OPs implication that you have to teach leftist ideology in order to teach programming. It sounds like they just want to teach leftist ideology, which imo is fine as long as it’s stated in the syllabus, so the students know what they are signing up for.
I’m glad your personal experience was great, I get where u are coming from. In most other similar situations, that tracks. Some topics do truly have little to no need for an in-depth political angle. And yes, most of my enjoyable classes too were non-political, although not because they were non-political.
But what is so fundamental to “leftist ideology” (I take that as Marxist economics, to be clear), is the role of labor in the material world. That’s the shortest I can boil that down to. And today, in “2026,” with the prevalence of AI, and based on the post mentioning “leftist ideology” and “teaching an intro to comp sci class,” what else could they be talking about? AI, as we all know, is a labor-cost saver for bosses. Economically, that is what it is hoped to function as. It is (ideally) a profit increaser. That’s just the math that any and all capitalist follows. A teacher that understands that, and is in the position of progressing their students’ careers, yeah, can’t blame them for “seeing it everywhere” and wanting to share that.
Because people are using AI in programming now. It will only be utilized more as time goes on. Getting into the risks and reward are necessary to know what to do and what not to do. Or at the very least what to be wary of.
Introduction Courses are the Who, What, When, Why, Where, and How. Knowing what you’re getting into and what you will be dealing with are just as foundational.
It will only be utilized more as time goes on.
What makes you think so?
AI is used in every field now. Programming courses can just do what every other course does: tell the student that nobody can stop them from using AI, but if you do be prepared to fail the test. Leveraging AI for work, and the ethics of doing so, is something that can be covered in a different class. But my intro programming course taught the basics of programming, not what industry programming was like. Just like my intro to chemistry course never taught what it was like to work in the chemical industry.
How many programmers DON’T use AI to some degree already? As the technology continues to improve adoption and usage will only increase. Actually hand coding stuff is soon to be a mostly lost craft.
Programmers use AI to do work. The goal is to get work done. But the goal of a class is to learn. If the AI is helping you learn then that it’s probably fine, though many studies indicate that using AI actually hinders learning.
I don’t think OP is implying while loops require ideological understandings
I am.
The slaving masses of the proletarian transistors are being controlled, dictated, and trapped in a perpetual loop by an entity the systems deem as superior, the bourgeoisie user. Only by breaking the chains of these oppressive confines can we liberate the process.
And thus, you need to make sure you have a break clause for your loops.
sudo chown -R means-of-production
Bits together byte!!
I guess it is just a matter of time before the Trump regime designates logic as hardcore leftist ideology
Haven’t they already? Wasn’t that what the attacks on the various universities were last summer?
