I can maybe cut a little slack for someone who’s like “I don’t really understand politics or know history, so I don’t feel confident having a strong opinion” if they were curious and honest. We all start ignorant and not everyone had the good fortune to get a quality education.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
Unless you had an absolutely shit background or a learning disability, not understanding history or politics is a choice they made.
I’m not holding it against them that their brains might not have been developed or focused enough at that age to take in the information, but if you realize you are missing something critical later in life and don’t make moves to rectify it, that’s also a choice
I agree and the only folks I give a pass to are immigrants, otherwise if US born there’s absolutely no excuse to choose being uneducated or choosing to sit out politics.
Its not hard to fall for propaganda, its not easy to find information about politics that you can ensure is not misleading, doesnt miss context, doesnt contain false information
You could also be a genuinely non-intelligent adult who’s naturally vulnerable to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Or you could be from a local / regional culture in which you’re essentially mistreated for entertaining progressive thoughts, or from shifting away from herd-thinking. Rural areas come to mind with all that.
Which is fine for existing in general but might not be OK for a potential partner. In the context of a dating app, I will 100% discriminate against people who are significantly less intelligent than myself. They may be perfectly lovely people but there is no chance that it would be a good romantic match. (If it were a hook up situation, maybe that’s different?)
I understand them, I’m informed, I have opinions that likely largely match yours, and Im a registered voter who routinely casts a ballot. I prefer to not discuss politics with anybody other than my spouse.
I’m not apolitical, but I also don’t believe there’s a career politician out there that actually cares about any of the issues that seem like a big deal to me. The ball players on your favorite baseball team do not care about your team getting to the playoffs – they care about their personal stats for leverage during contract negotiations when trade deadlines come around. Do not expect them to always dive for the ball.
I’m also fat as fuck.
I’m guessing you’d deem me apolitical and swipe left on me (if I were single and in your age group).
“I don’t really understand politics or know history, so I don’t feel confident having a strong opinion”
That was my stance when I was ~16 when Trump was first coming into the political scene… When I got more curious, I got shut down for even asking “what has he said that was racist?” like it was a crime to even ask.
I was sooooo close to becoming a right winger, because the right wingers would JUMP at the chance to explain why they hated the people they hated. I disagreed with a lot but I bought enough lies to feel like the conservatives were overall the ones to vote for.
That era of my life was so embarrassing in retrospect. I was a teenager, but still. I still have a Trump hat my friend bought me in my closet.
You’re allowed to grow and change your mind with new information. Keep growing and learning and thinking and you may find yourself agreeing on an issue or two with your opponents. Never let your mind be so open that it’s closed. Being a brainless zealot is never good.
That’s fine. You were in your blunder years and not even old enough to vote. At least you were paying attention and willing to learn.
There are people three times your age who’ve voted for that pedo rapist three consecutive times and still support him, even as he burns their world to the ground.
Unlike them, you were smart enough to avoid the cult. Be proud of that, if nothing else.
I’m 26 now and I’m constantly dumbfounded at the sheer unwillingness of my peers and the older generations to truly listen to their political opponents.
When I was a teen I was listening to Steven Crowder, Sargon of Akkad, etc. but I at least eventually got around to giving people like Anita Sarkesian and Lacy Green a chance. It only took about a year to realize that they weren’t saying anything to warrant the right pissing their panties as hard as they were. It also took significantly less time than that to realize that people like Steven and Sargon were assholes. AND I WAS A TEEN.
That kinda shit makes it hard not to be pessimistic. I can at least hope that the generations after mine won’t contract their willful ignorance, and this BS will die with my generation.
im guessing if you are not aware of trump and his history going back decades you would think he is “great”, alot of people seem to ignorant his past racist, business dealings.
Trump sure proved one thing, that USians don’t vote based on looks. Because a couple looks at how that saggy sack of rusty shit handles himself, should’ve been enough for anybody.
This here is the most to-the-point impression of Trump I’ve seen so far.
This is what the left refuses to understand: when you spit upon everyone who is even slightly less left than you, the recipients end up being driven rightward.
Example: Hexbear.net. Edit: actually, that’s a bad example since they aren’t truly “left”, just cosplaying as such while acting similar to MAGA, differing mainly in the words chosen yet similar in thinking processes, i.e. an echo chamber by a different name is still an echo chamber.
Can you explain why communism isn’t truly left, and how dialectical materialism is similar to MAGA thought? Both of those concepts are highly confusing.
Also, the idea that political struggle from the left drives people rightward doesn’t seem to bear out in reality. I always see this concept coming from conservatives, but I have always seen it as an excuse for people to blame their own right-wing views on others.
Sure, but “you were mean to me so now I’m joining maga” is pretty silly.
Some people are like that, I guess, but if someone rudely explains how racism is deeply entrenched in the US that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
You were the one who brought up that comic, not me. Yes, it is rather silly, or I would say reductionistic.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
I’m not (fully) disagreeing with your statement here btw.
Though this one here again is too reductionistic:
Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
I am saying read up about how human psychology works. Let’s use a hypothetical: a single mother, widowed even, is trying to take care of multiple children, and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day. On outcome is that she would probably be unlikely to desire to spend the time to even so much as read what leftist philosophy is all about, and therefore she would come away with a false impression of what it even meant.
Consider the case of Christianity: do those who e.g. interrupt funeral proceedings holding signs and yelling at the top of their lungs how “god hates f4*s!” provide an accurate portrayal of their supposedly central message of showing love to one another (gentleness, faithfulness, self control, and the like)?
Likewise communists punching out not actual Nazis but merely the stressed out and uninformed - particularly those less intellectually endowed - is not likely to win many converts to the cause. But that’s just my two cents.
and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day.
But no there’s no corresponding “leftists are doing something like punching her in the face” in real life. Certainly not “every single” one. I agree that people are emotionally driven ( https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe is a good comic about it ).
There are extremists in any sect - the christian fanatics, animal rights ecoterrorists, whatever. But it’s not “the left” as a whole, or even a majority.
Unless, I guess, you consider a scenario like
“I just think gay people shouldn’t be so visible. It’s confusing to my children”
“That’s a messed up thing to say. Gay people are a part of life. Shunting them into the closet so you can avoid a mildly uncomfortable conversation is unjust”
Echo chambers that deny facts in favor of their preferred view of reality? (e.g. that Ukraine is the aggressor rather than Russia) Check.
Tribal politicking, where facts chiefly matter depending on who is speaking them? Check.
Refusal to update one’s viewpoint after seeing incontrovertible evidence that would otherwise demand it, if someone’s goal was truth? Check.
Making use of every logical fallacy to sow FUD in their opponents? Check.
A better strategy might be to stop thinking of humans as “opponents” and rather than “beat them”, aid their thinking to enlighten and uplift them by knowledge, essentially turning an opponent into a true ally, as opposed to merely a worn down victim of bullying practices.
Moral purity beatings will continue until morale improves.
All of what you said applies to you, though, which is why the only example you gave was the strawman idea that Ukraine is the aggressor, rather than NATO. No matter how many facts I have given you, irrefutable evidence, you generally dismissed it as “propaganda” while sowing FUD everywhere. Seriously, there are only a handful of people as obsessed with communists on this collection of websites that I’ve seen, and I only really recognize you because you kept mentioning me long after we had had a conversation.
It took me a whole year to educate myself on all the current issues of today which led me to a decision to finally vote. Nevertheless, I don’t look back.
most people arnt that honest, alot of them that are ignorant about it and they dont think it affects them if they ignore it(so they think it will get them into arguments, so they ignore it as much as possible). the “apoliticals” are conservatives though, i suspect the even ignorant ones lean conservatives it comes time to vote, because they are less informed.
I can maybe cut a little slack for someone who’s like “I don’t really understand politics or know history, so I don’t feel confident having a strong opinion” if they were curious and honest. We all start ignorant and not everyone had the good fortune to get a quality education.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
In your 20s sure. At my age there’s no excuse other than willfull ignorance and I’m not engaging with that. (I’m also not looking to date, thankfully)
Unless you had an absolutely shit background or a learning disability, not understanding history or politics is a choice they made.
I’m not holding it against them that their brains might not have been developed or focused enough at that age to take in the information, but if you realize you are missing something critical later in life and don’t make moves to rectify it, that’s also a choice
I agree and the only folks I give a pass to are immigrants, otherwise if US born there’s absolutely no excuse to choose being uneducated or choosing to sit out politics.
Its not hard to fall for propaganda, its not easy to find information about politics that you can ensure is not misleading, doesnt miss context, doesnt contain false information
You could also be a genuinely non-intelligent adult who’s naturally vulnerable to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Or you could be from a local / regional culture in which you’re essentially mistreated for entertaining progressive thoughts, or from shifting away from herd-thinking. Rural areas come to mind with all that.
Which is fine for existing in general but might not be OK for a potential partner. In the context of a dating app, I will 100% discriminate against people who are significantly less intelligent than myself. They may be perfectly lovely people but there is no chance that it would be a good romantic match. (If it were a hook up situation, maybe that’s different?)
Well, there you go!
I understand them, I’m informed, I have opinions that likely largely match yours, and Im a registered voter who routinely casts a ballot. I prefer to not discuss politics with anybody other than my spouse.
I’m not apolitical, but I also don’t believe there’s a career politician out there that actually cares about any of the issues that seem like a big deal to me. The ball players on your favorite baseball team do not care about your team getting to the playoffs – they care about their personal stats for leverage during contract negotiations when trade deadlines come around. Do not expect them to always dive for the ball.
I’m also fat as fuck.
I’m guessing you’d deem me apolitical and swipe left on me (if I were single and in your age group).
That was my stance when I was ~16 when Trump was first coming into the political scene… When I got more curious, I got shut down for even asking “what has he said that was racist?” like it was a crime to even ask.
I was sooooo close to becoming a right winger, because the right wingers would JUMP at the chance to explain why they hated the people they hated. I disagreed with a lot but I bought enough lies to feel like the conservatives were overall the ones to vote for.
That era of my life was so embarrassing in retrospect. I was a teenager, but still. I still have a Trump hat my friend bought me in my closet.
You’re allowed to grow and change your mind with new information. Keep growing and learning and thinking and you may find yourself agreeing on an issue or two with your opponents. Never let your mind be so open that it’s closed. Being a brainless zealot is never good.
That’s fine. You were in your blunder years and not even old enough to vote. At least you were paying attention and willing to learn.
There are people three times your age who’ve voted for that pedo rapist three consecutive times and still support him, even as he burns their world to the ground.
Unlike them, you were smart enough to avoid the cult. Be proud of that, if nothing else.
I’m 26 now and I’m constantly dumbfounded at the sheer unwillingness of my peers and the older generations to truly listen to their political opponents.
When I was a teen I was listening to Steven Crowder, Sargon of Akkad, etc. but I at least eventually got around to giving people like Anita Sarkesian and Lacy Green a chance. It only took about a year to realize that they weren’t saying anything to warrant the right pissing their panties as hard as they were. It also took significantly less time than that to realize that people like Steven and Sargon were assholes. AND I WAS A TEEN.
That kinda shit makes it hard not to be pessimistic. I can at least hope that the generations after mine won’t contract their willful ignorance, and this BS will die with my generation.
You should keep it. You never know when you gotta go undercover.
im guessing if you are not aware of trump and his history going back decades you would think he is “great”, alot of people seem to ignorant his past racist, business dealings.
I didn’t even know he was a celebrity before he got into politics tbh. I just knew he was brazen and 16 year old me found that appealing at the time.
Trump sure proved one thing, that USians don’t vote based on looks. Because a couple looks at how that saggy sack of rusty shit handles himself, should’ve been enough for anybody.
This here is the most to-the-point impression of Trump I’ve seen so far.
This is what the left refuses to understand: when you spit upon everyone who is even slightly less left than you, the recipients end up being driven rightward.
Example: Hexbear.net.Edit: actually, that’s a bad example since they aren’t truly “left”, just cosplaying as such while acting similar to MAGA, differing mainly in the words chosen yet similar in thinking processes, i.e. an echo chamber by a different name is still an echo chamber.Can you explain why communism isn’t truly left, and how dialectical materialism is similar to MAGA thought? Both of those concepts are highly confusing.
Also, the idea that political struggle from the left drives people rightward doesn’t seem to bear out in reality. I always see this concept coming from conservatives, but I have always seen it as an excuse for people to blame their own right-wing views on others.
Fortunately your intellect is far to great for you to be caught in a echo chamber.
Evokes this comic https://thenib.com/fault-right/
I mean, that argument seems a little… hyperbolic.
It is possible for people to disagree and not be dicks about it.
Sure, but “you were mean to me so now I’m joining maga” is pretty silly.
Some people are like that, I guess, but if someone rudely explains how racism is deeply entrenched in the US that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
You were the one who brought up that comic, not me. Yes, it is rather silly, or I would say reductionistic.
I’m not (fully) disagreeing with your statement here btw.
Though this one here again is too reductionistic:
I am saying read up about how human psychology works. Let’s use a hypothetical: a single mother, widowed even, is trying to take care of multiple children, and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day. On outcome is that she would probably be unlikely to desire to spend the time to even so much as read what leftist philosophy is all about, and therefore she would come away with a false impression of what it even meant.
Consider the case of Christianity: do those who e.g. interrupt funeral proceedings holding signs and yelling at the top of their lungs how “god hates f4*s!” provide an accurate portrayal of their supposedly central message of showing love to one another (gentleness, faithfulness, self control, and the like)?
Likewise communists punching out not actual Nazis but merely the stressed out and uninformed - particularly those less intellectually endowed - is not likely to win many converts to the cause. But that’s just my two cents.
But no there’s no corresponding “leftists are doing something like punching her in the face” in real life. Certainly not “every single” one. I agree that people are emotionally driven ( https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe is a good comic about it ).
There are extremists in any sect - the christian fanatics, animal rights ecoterrorists, whatever. But it’s not “the left” as a whole, or even a majority.
Unless, I guess, you consider a scenario like
“I just think gay people shouldn’t be so visible. It’s confusing to my children”
“That’s a messed up thing to say. Gay people are a part of life. Shunting them into the closet so you can avoid a mildly uncomfortable conversation is unjust”
to be punching someone in the face.
tankies are more liken to conservatives then like to admit.
How are communists more liken to fascists?
Echo chambers that deny facts in favor of their preferred view of reality? (e.g. that Ukraine is the aggressor rather than Russia) Check.
Tribal politicking, where facts chiefly matter depending on who is speaking them? Check.
Refusal to update one’s viewpoint after seeing incontrovertible evidence that would otherwise demand it, if someone’s goal was truth? Check.
Making use of every logical fallacy to sow FUD in their opponents? Check.
A better strategy might be to stop thinking of humans as “opponents” and rather than “beat them”, aid their thinking to enlighten and uplift them by knowledge, essentially turning an opponent into a true ally, as opposed to merely a worn down victim of bullying practices.
Moral purity beatings will continue until morale improves.
All of what you said applies to you, though, which is why the only example you gave was the strawman idea that Ukraine is the aggressor, rather than NATO. No matter how many facts I have given you, irrefutable evidence, you generally dismissed it as “propaganda” while sowing FUD everywhere. Seriously, there are only a handful of people as obsessed with communists on this collection of websites that I’ve seen, and I only really recognize you because you kept mentioning me long after we had had a conversation.
I understand if someone doesn’t understand the federal budget and stuff like that.
Buy that’s no excuse for not having a strong opinion about rape, pedophilia and genocide.
Is your strong opinion on genocide in support of it or something?
It took me a whole year to educate myself on all the current issues of today which led me to a decision to finally vote. Nevertheless, I don’t look back.
it started when russia was getting thier hooks into social media around 2016, i became more aware of it.
most people arnt that honest, alot of them that are ignorant about it and they dont think it affects them if they ignore it(so they think it will get them into arguments, so they ignore it as much as possible). the “apoliticals” are conservatives though, i suspect the even ignorant ones lean conservatives it comes time to vote, because they are less informed.